Thomas’ Lord and God

In John 20:28, Thomas sees Jesus risen from the dead, and proclaims that Jesus is his Lord and his God. Thomas was a good Jew, and certainly a staunch monotheist. He would never admit that someone besides the LORD was God.

This is a good verse to show Jehovah’s Witnesses. I’ve heard from various sources that they often have never seen this verse. When they see it, their immediate reaction is to say that Thomas was taking the Lord’s name in vain. Supposedly they think this is what Thomas was doing because that is their reaction when they see the verse. I’ve never seen any Jehovah’s Witness do this in person until the other day. In fact, I have it in writing for everyone to see. You can check it out here. The person who said it has made it clear that he or she isn’t a Jehovah’s Witness, but shares many of the same beliefs.

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9 Responses to Thomas’ Lord and God

  1. tom harvey says:

    it is laughable…. except that it is so very sad.
    also if you look at the verse:
    28And Thomas answered and said UNTO HIM, My LORD and my God
    if they were correct it woudl read “and thomas cried” or and thomas looked in the sky and said” but it doesn’t….it plainly states “Thomas answered and SAID UNTO HIM”!!! i showed this to a few of my nonsaved co-workers and asked them to read it as is plainly written (a fact i was chastised for by a cult member) and the all said the same thing.
    fact is you have to really twist and stretch to get it to mean any other thing.
    fact is if you admit what Thomas is clearly saying, then your heresy crumbles.
    so i beg of anyone reading this….
    pray the prayer of Thomas! repent and believe today before it’s too late

  2. Jason says:

    bill…thanks for the comment on my blog. i’ve responded and hope you’ll take time to read it. in the meantime, i’ll be reading your blog to try and see your evangelistic perspective and understand it better. thanks….jason

  3. Victorrrrrrr says:

    Bill,

    Look, I stumbled across your website and since you seem to have such a strong opinion i decided to read some of your entries. This current entry though strikes me as, well, a few things.

    1. Rather pointless. Your argument or whatever you’re trying to say just seems to be one of semantics. Why are you arguing about words who were written by men who have been dead for hundreds of years? Isn’t the core point of religion the message? Goodwill towards men and peace and such.

    2. You seem to nitpick the holes of your own faith. Christianity has seen more human faces and touched more human lips then well, probably more than anything (excluding the other religions, that’s another argument) and you think everyone envisioned the same thing? Of course not, that’s why we have all of our respective branches. It’s gone through times of change, reflection, abandonment, atonement. It’s risen and it’s fallen, but it’s still here, and not because people try to point out the logical fallacies. What a pointless endeavor, a child could ask a religious question with no answer.

    3. You love the word proof, and proving. Religion is not a debate, it’s not something you can hold over someone or tell people they’re wrong. Religion is what color shirt you put on this morning and how you like to wear your hair. It’s a personal choice with personal responsibilities and personal rewards. It’s a learning tool, not a tool of dissent. We believe in god for all of our various reasons, but I know i don’t give a that Thomas called Jesus LORD. Hell if I saw anyone rise from the dead I’ll call them Lord all day.

    I know that this is your website, and that you aren’t forcing anyone to read, but Bill it’s your happiness that I am after. I’m not here to prove you wrong, only to ask questions. Do you enjoy this? Wasting time, bandwidth and power so you can post ridiculous nuances that don’t matter so you can spend all day waiting for people to comment to prove them wrong? Sounds pretty narcissistic to me.

    I respect what you do, but gut hanging outside of a bar with a Giant Cross waiting to enlighten drunk bastards that don’t care is not a smart thing. You know that God works in all ways, its my belief that he acts in such a way that you don’t know he did anything at all. I suggest you let him do the work, and live a life of humanity, not God.

  4. Bill says:

    Victor,

    Thanks for the advice, but I must do what God leads me to do, even if it seems foolish. In fact, what God leads people to do is very often foolish from a human perspective.

    The point of this blog, and the point of my life is to glorify God. There is only one God, and He has given us the truth in the Bible. While there are many things we can agree to disagree on, there are many things that cannot be compromised, and if someone doesn’t hold to those truths, they will spend eternity in the lake of fire.

    I’m afraid there are many things about me you do not understand. I was once dead in my sin, and then, God raised me from the dead. The things I used to like I hate. The things I used to hate I like. More importantly, my sins have been forgiven.

    What about you? Have your sins been forgiven? Do you realize that you desperately need your sins to be forgiven? You will give an account for every idle word you’ve spoken, and God is infinitely holy. He cannot just let people off the hook for no reason.

    If you’re going to comment here, I will ask you to not cuss. I’ve edited the cussing out of your previous comment, and from now on, if you cuss, I’ll just delete the comment, because I really don’t have time to go through and edit your writing.

    Thanks,
    Bill

  5. tom harvey says:

    as a side note… ( Bill, i hope i am not putting words in your mouth here)
    Bill says that his point is to glorify God, may i also add that in doing so there should be fruit born of the matter. and there has been fruit produced here. fruit that even we christians may never fully understand…. that fruit is not to say “i’m right and your wrong”, but to see the fruit of repentance and salvation in the lives of people.
    i know of 2 people whom i have debated on this forum, though they will never admit it unless they repent, have had some sleepless nights because of thier involvement here. late in the midnite hour… your soul will trouble you

  6. lgibson05 says:

    Bill,
    Yes, in that scripture Thomas exclaimed “My Lord, My God.” Yes, Jesus is referred to as God just like powerful men and judges were addressed as “gods.” Of course, Jesus’ position is far higher than any man. Because of Jesus’ unique position in relation to Jehovah, notice what he was referred to at John 1:18. Jesus was referred to as ” the only begotten god.”At John 1:1 it says ” In the beginning was the word, & the word was with God,& the word was God.” Jesus is even referred to as “Mighty God.” (Isa. 9:6) But nowhere is he spoken of as being ALMIGHTY as Jehovah is. (Gen 17:1)All of this is in harmony with Jesus’ being described as “a god,” or “divine”. Now after Jesus resurrection he sent a message to his apostles, including Thomas, in which he said “I am ascending… to my God and your God.”
    Jesus in no way seeks his father’s position. He said: “It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.” (Luke 4:8)He exists “in God’s form”, & the Father has commanded that ” in the name of Jesus every knee should bend,” but that is all done ” to the glory of God the father.” (Phil. 2:5-11)
    So yes, Jesus is referred to as “God” and rightly so, but he is not the ALMIGHTY God. He is Jehovah’s son.No, Thomas was not saying God in vain. If he was Jesus would have definitely corrected him on the spot.

  7. Bill says:

    Hello,

    There are a couple problems with that. If you acknowledge that Jesus is “the Mighty God” (Isaiah 10:21), but deny that He is Yahweh, you are a polytheist. Even if you say you don’t worship Jesus and believe He is a lesser god of some sort, you are a polytheist. You could get haughty and say you’re not a polytheist and claim to be a henotheist, but henotheism is only a type of polytheism.

    Second, you say that Jesus doesn’t seek the Father’s position. Trinitarians don’t believe that He does. The Father is not the Son. The Son submits to the Father. For example, if an employee submits to his boss, that doesn’t mean he’s an inferior being. They’re both human and of equal value.

    As far as I’m concerned Philippians 2:5-11 is devastating to your position. Maybe you should reread it. Here’s verses 5-7:

    “Who [Jesus], being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, 7but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. ”

    Thanks for your comment.
    Bill

    • lgibson05 says:

      @Bill.. THanks for responding back! Yes, Jesus can be called a mighty god but only yahweh is the ALMIGHTY. Jesus, as well as I, recognize that he and his father are not one and he does submit to his headship. I like your example and that is so true, Just like the employer and employee both Jesus’ and Jehovah’s position should be valued even though one has a higher position than the other. Phil 2:5-11 states: “5 Keep this mental attitude in YOU that was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God. 7 No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and came to be in the likeness of men. 8 More than that, when he found himself in fashion as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient as far as death, yes, death on a torture stake. 9 For this very reason also God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every [other] name, 10 so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground, 11 and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.” Please explain your reasoning regarding why verses 5-7 doesn’t show that Jesus did not seek his father’s position? To me “not considering equality with God something to be grasped” and accepting the assignment to come to earth and humbily leaving behind being an archangel and God’s own Spokenman in heaven for a time to come to earth shows that he in no way wanted his father’s position.After all he did say @ John 14:28 that the “The father is greater than I.”

  8. Bill says:

    Hello lgibson05,

    You said, “Yes, Jesus can be called a mighty god but only yahweh is the ALMIGHTY.”

    That is polytheism. Do you consider yourself to be a polytheist? Do you realize how very unbiblical polytheism is?

    You said, “Jesus, as well as I, recognize that he and his father are not one and he does submit to his headship.”

    It depends on how you define being “one” with the Father. Jesus is not the Father, and in that way, they are not one. But, you’re obviously familiar with John 10:30. Jesus and the Father are one in the salvation of God’s people. Jesus gives the sheep eternal life (John 10:28). No one can snatch them out of His hand or the Father’s hand (John 10:29).

    You said, “I like your example and that is so true, Just like the employer and employee both Jesus’ and Jehovah’s position should be valued even though one has a higher position than the other.”

    I think you may have missed the point of my example. It is not that both the boss and employee should be valued. It’s that they are innately equal. Because one submits doesn’t mean he is inferior.

    You said, “Please explain your reasoning regarding why verses 5-7 doesn’t show that Jesus did not seek his father’s position?”

    Jesus doesn’t seek the Father’s position, and no Trinitarian believes that. I certainly don’t believe that He was seeking the Father’s position. Just as with the boss/employee example, holding a position doesn’t mean one is inferior to another.

    What do you think about the blog post? Why was Thomas able to call Jesus His Lord and God? Jesus didn’t rebuke him for doing that. Do you think Thomas was taking the Lord’s name in vain?

    Are you the same person that sent me a message on Youtube the other day?

    Thanks,
    Bill

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