1 Corinthians 15:40-42 is talking about our resurrected body. It certainly doesn’t mention anything about varying degrees of glory. Jesus made it very clear in Matthew 25 that there is heaven and there is hell.

Are you saying Genesis 5:22 confirms the lie Satan told in the Garden of Eden? I’m seriously interested in hearing more about what you believe in this regard. Do you believe Satan was telling the truth? If men become gods, is that a loophole God didn’t want us to find out, but Satan revealed it?

Prophets are all over the Bible. The question is whether Joseph Smith is a prophet. There is a test prophets must pass: perfection (Deut. 18:20-22). There are tests for apostles: signs, wonders and mighty deeds (2 Corinthians 12:12). Do you believe Joseph Smith passes these tests?

My goal isn’t to criticize the beliefs of others. I have better things to do with my time. My goal is to preach the Gospel. Mormons have a different gospel (Galatians 1:8). I believe the consequences for polytheism, and relying on works is outer darkness/hell. The most loving thing I can do for anyone is to try to convince them of the truth. If I didn’t care, I would say nothing, right? I’m sorry if I’ve said something in a manner that offended you.

Thanks,
Bill

Christ says in his house are many mansions.

Many Christians of various types (not just Mormons) believe in some type of a reward system in the hereafter.

Genesis 5:22 confirms what was said in 3:5.

Prophets are mentioned all over the Bible. Ephesians 4:11-13 is just one of many examples of prophets, and their continued value.

The Bible is a big book Bill. Big for a reason. There is no need for reconcilation. I believe all scripture.

Why don’t you admit that your goal here is to criticize the beliefs of others? And to judge them for their lack of relationship with Christ – as you see it.

Of course I’m missing the degrees of glory belief. It’s not in the Bible. I agree that everyone will be resurrected and have a physical body someday. On Judgment Day, Jesus will separate everyone into sheep or goats. Goats will be cast into the eternal lake of fire (Matt. 25:41), and the sheep will inherit the kingdom (Matt 24:34). There is no inbetween mentioned by Jesus. Certainly there is no indication that we can become gods; that is the first lie ever told by the serpent in the Garden of Eden (Genesis 3:5). The ideas of degrees of glory is contradictory to the Bible.

If you want to have prophets, I think you’re on shaky biblical ground anyway, but you know you have a false prophet if he says something that contradicts the Bible. You can tell Joseph Smith is false, because he contradicted the Bible in doctrine, and he gave false prophecies. That’s the same way we know the Watchtower (Jehovah’s Witnesses) is wrong. They made several false prophecies about when Jesus would return. The standard for a prophet is perfection when he’s speaking for God (Deuteronomy 18:20-22). How many false prophecies must Joseph Smith give before he’s considered a false prophet?

Your heart and mine are desperately wicked (Jeremiah 17:9). How do you know that something that contradicts the Bible is true? Are you trusting your deceitful, wicked heart?

I agree that asking you oversimplified questions misses much of your beliefs. But it’s not me that oversimplifies the questions. It’s the Bible. Why don’t you just admit that you reject the Bible, and you won’t have to try to reconcile your beliefs with it anymore?

Thanks,
Bill

I think one of the things you are missing is the whole degrees of glory belief of the Mormon church. You are trying to force a saved/not saved or Heaven/Hell dichotomy on us, and that is not our belief.

We believe everyone will be resurrected because of Christ and His atonement. Therefore we are all saved from death. So to ask if we are saved in this regard the answer is yes. We also believe that Christ’s atonement takes care of the effects of the fall. So in that sence we are also saved. If we wish to have greater rewards in the eternities we need to do those things that will help us have a positive experience when we are judged by our works – which the Bible speaks of frequently.

So for basic salvation, baptism is not a requirement. If one wants a greater reward (what we would call the Celestial Kingdom) then it is.

Forcing Mormons to answer oversimplified questions misses much of the Plan of Salvation as we understand it.

So you have to keep the law, but you can’t keep the law?

Isaiah 64:6 says, “But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags.”

God sees our good deeds as filthy rags. It’s actually referring to bloody menstrual rags. He is so holy, and we try to offer Him the putrid, disgusting filth of baptism, good works, and shabby attempts at keeping the law.

Jesus doesn’t see us as good people (Luke 18:19). In fact our hearts are desperately wicked (Jeremiah 17:9). Like Galatians 3:10 says, all those who are under the law are under a curse. By your own admission, you have to keep the law. You’re therefore, under the curse.

Seeing how your heart is desperately wicked, are you sure you are right about all of this? Are you sure you can keep the law perfectly? Are you sure you should be a polytheist? How do you know you’re right?

Thanks,
Bill

“I must explain that baptism does not save us, but is one of the steps required of us to follow Christ and access the grace that He offers us freely. Through baptism, we enter into a covenant with Christ and enter through the gate on the strait and narrow path that leads to life. This is the core doctrine of Christ that Paul refers to in Hebrews 6:1-2:”

check this link out, he goes into depth about it and can word it much better then I.

http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_Baptism.shtml#essential

So, you don’t have to get baptized to be saved? Salvation isn’t something that comes after all that you can do?

If you believe that you have to be baptized, that is a good, religious deed you must do to earn your salvation. I don’t know how else to explain it. You can deny earning your salvation all day long, but it doesn’t hold water if you require baptism.

Thanks,
Bill

Your explanation of James is interesting, and I believe it is on the money. I would simply say that our claim as Mormons is that this fits us as well. We believe in Christ as the Savior. It is only through Him that we will be resurrected. It is only through Him that we can have a forgiveness of sins. There is no other way. We accept that. Now we are trying to live a pure religion like James describes. We are trying to live the admonisions of Paul. We are trying to follow Christs example.

Whether or not anyone has sufficient faith in Christ is difficult for mortals to judge from the outside.

Galatians 3:10 says, “For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.”

If you are relying on obeying the commandments, you better keep them perfectly. If you fail to keep the whole law, you are guilty of breaking it all (James 2:20).

Galatians 2:16 says, “Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.”

Justification happens in an instant when you repent and put your faith in Jesus. This is called being born again (John 3). It doesn’t take a lifetime of obedience to be born again.

Galatians 3:24-25 says, “Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.”

It doesn’t say the law takes us to Christ and the law. It takes us to Christ so that we may be justified by faith, and we are no longer under the law. The law can only crush us, and show us how wicked we are. We have no hope of keeping the law. Hatred is murder (1 John 3:15). Lust is adultery (Matt 5:27-28). Have you ever told a lie? Have you ever stolen anything? Have you ever desired something you chouldn’t have (coveting)? Has God always been first in your life?

Matthew 5:48 says, “Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.” It doesn’t say become perfect. It says be perfect. If you died right now are you perfect? If you die in 50 years will you be perfect then?

Thanks,
Bill

I’m going to say this again, and again and again if I have to. We as LDS DO NOT believe we can “earn” salvation. There is a BIG difference between, working or earning your way into heaven, and what we believe. We believe you are saved by grace, BUT Christ has COMMANDED that we obey and serve and be kind and repent etc, etc,. You CANNOT say “I believe” and because you believe get a ticket in. You MUST believe AND follow the commandments. He gave them to us for a reason. We can not pick and choose one over the other.

Eric, I’m a convert of 2 and a half years, I love the gospel and I am so thankful for our awesome misssionaries! Thank you for serving!

Steph :)